黑洞社区

It鈥檚 difficult to believe as he sits in his sparsely furnished Whitehall office, but had life turned out differently, Jim Knight might at this moment have been pacing around a US film studio waiting for Al Pacino to call him back.

The diminutive, softly spoken schools minister does not look like the dramatic type, but it seems that appearances can be deceptive: he once ran a travelling theatre company with Sam Mendes, the Oscar-winning director, doing everything from the acting to the accounts.

If Knight, who set up his venture with Mendes during their last year at Cambridge, has regrets about their differing career choices, he doesn鈥檛 show it. The pair worked together for several years after leaving university, along with Knight鈥檚 future wife. Eventually it failed because, Knight says, 鈥渨e chose to do only new writing. So nobody had heard of anything we did鈥�.

The 43 year old made his exit from the stage and entrance into politics in the nineties, and he doesn鈥檛 miss that life. 鈥淥ne mad year we went to the Edinburgh festival where I managed the venue, supervised the building of the auditorium out of scaffolding and performed in three plays. It was lunacy. It took me many years to go back to Edinburgh after that.鈥�

The ability to balance competing pressures has, however, remained with him. As so often happens with ministers, our half-hour interview slot has been cut to 15 owing to his diary pressures. As we talk rapidly, Knight glances down twice to open messages on his phone, without ever missing a beat in the conversation.

It鈥檚 a good skill to have. As schools minister, Knight is responsible for fulfilling the government鈥檚 拢45bn pledge to rebuild or refurbish every secondary school in the country by 2020 鈥� not to mention a host of other proposed building programmes in the education sector. This always looked like an immense task, but now the country is up to its eyebrows in 拢1.2 trillion of debt it looks a tad unrealistic. Does Knight really believe school building programmes can survive the recession unscathed?

As he leans back in his chair, beneath a school pupil鈥檚 brightly coloured painting of the department for children鈥檚 rainbow logo, Knight is quick to acknowledge that the situation has recently not been too rosy, particularly for the 拢45bn 黑洞社区 Schools for the Future (BSF) initiative, which has been hit by the tightening of bank lending. It is understood that financial close is being reached on BSF schemes two to three months later than originally anticipated.

鈥淟ike any programme with private finance involved, BSF has had challenges which [delivery body] Partnerships for Schools (PfS) in particular have had to work through, with me saying you鈥檝e got to keep opening schools and can鈥檛 slow down the trajectory,鈥� he says.

He adds that he is happy with the delivery body鈥檚 progress in stemming the problems, that have led to 拢300m in emergency funding from the European Investment Bank, and moves to entice lenders back into the market.

鈥淭hey鈥檝e managed those challenges really well. In summer 2007 there were 20 lenders, and obviously we then had some falling out of involvement. But they鈥檝e now picked back up to 20 again. So that crucial side of it, in terms of getting the finance through, has reverted back to a steady state that we鈥檙e really comfortable with.鈥�

And Knight is confident that the flow of money will be maintained. 鈥淭he banks are starting to want to get back to doing their job,鈥� he says, with a small laugh. 鈥淭hey鈥檝e got an attitude to risk that is very cautious, but I think they find in BSF a low-risk proposition.鈥�

The government itself has accelerated 拢800m of funding on schools as part of its spending stimulus, but none of that has gone to BSF. Knight defends this decision: 鈥淚n terms of stimulating the industry we looked quite hard at whether we could accelerate BSF, and we made a judgment that we would compromise the quality of what we鈥檙e doing too much if we did.鈥�

He says instead that the speed of BSF delivery will be helped by other measures such as a minimum design standard, launched last month, which should help streamline the procurement process. 鈥淲ith the smaller projects that we鈥檝e brought forward money for, we can get them out of the door faster.鈥� He says the decision was based on what was best able to help the industry for the overall good of both types of project.

鈥淚t鈥檚 important that alongside the banking side we鈥檝e got an industry that鈥檚 in sufficiently good shape to be able to do the work for us and that we didn鈥檛 have a collapse in skills and so on. I feel we鈥檙e in a reasonable place despite very difficult times for the industry.鈥�

That may be the case for now, but the government鈥檚 debt and the implication for public spending is difficult to ignore. With the interview time ticking on, Knight is keen to stress the government鈥檚 commitment to education spending, and to BSF in particular: 鈥淲e have maintained that we are committed to continuing BSF. That鈥檚 a commitment that鈥檚 been repeated not just by me and the secretary of state [Ed Balls], but by the prime minister. So our political commitment is as strong as it鈥檚 ever been.鈥�

That said, he does acknowledge that the programme will come under increased pressure. 鈥淧ublic spending will be tight, and although a lot of that will be on the revenue side it鈥檚 not going to be perhaps as straightforward as it has been on the capital side of things.鈥�

What this means for the scope and timing of the programmes is unclear. Knight concedes that by 2020, the original target for BSF, 鈥渨e might not have completed the work on every single secondary school, but we will at least have started it鈥�.

He is hesitant over whether the pressures on spending could mean more refurbishments rather than renewals. 鈥淚t can be cheaper to do, yes, but sometimes it鈥檚 not that straightforward. Obviously we continue to look at it and we continue to ensure we鈥檙e getting best value for money.鈥�

He also hints that there may be some changes in the programme for the next wave of schools to enter. 鈥淭here鈥檚 more we鈥檒l say about the next Comprehensive Spending Review period, I鈥檇 hope, later on in the year, in terms of those authorities that are not yet involved in BSF. Those detailed discussions with the Treasury go on. But the government as a whole remains steadfastly committed to BSF,鈥� he adds quickly, keen to hammer home that message.

Knight does seem genuinely committed to the programme. But when the subject of his own former school comes up, it鈥檚 clear he is not getting carried away with the need to modernise for the sake of it, a criticism that has been levelled at the Learning and Skills Council鈥檚 (LSC) 拢5bn college building programme, which was widely viewed as over-ambitious and came a spectacular cropper earlier this year.

Knight spent his own youth in a school in Eltham, south-east London. As it is private, it is outside the scope of government-funded improvements. When he returned there earlier this year he found it much as he had left it.

鈥淚 was amazed to go back and go into the same science lab where I was taught chemistry and see the same person who taught me teaching a local science club. It was great actually. There have been some capital developments, but it鈥檚 still very similar. It鈥檚 not about change for change鈥檚 sake 鈥� if it ain鈥檛 broke, don鈥檛 fix it.鈥�

But he quickly adds that there are many schools where this consideration does not apply. 鈥淭here鈥檚 absolutely no doubt in my mind that the investment we鈥檙e making is transforming education. For pupils to be able to move around between lessons in corridors that are not cramped and with peeling paint 鈥� it鈥檚 really important.鈥�

Despite his praise for BSF, however, Knight says there are no immediate plans for PfS to take charge of the LSC鈥檚 college building programme. The programme comes largely under the remit of the Department for Innovations, Universities and Skills (DIUS), but also includes some sixth-form provision that is funded by the children鈥檚 department. 鈥淚 haven鈥檛 had those discussions with DIUS. At the moment the work with PfS about extending its reach has been more about other capital projects within this department鈥�.

There has been some concern that the expenses furore might weaken MPs鈥� concentration on the issues at hand 鈥� a point that Knight is well aware of. 鈥淚t鈥檚 been a bit of a story,鈥� he laughs nervously.

Knight himself has published details of his own on his website 鈥� and despite a 拢399 claim for a combined television, DVD and computer monitor (more evidence of that multitasking, perhaps) 鈥� everything seems in order. But he鈥檚 acutely aware of the atmosphere in Westminster.

鈥淐learly all MPs are concerned about it and want to get it sorted out quickly, and it鈥檚 the dominant issue politically right now. But for us in government,鈥� he adds, hurtling off again, 鈥淲e鈥檙e still getting on with it. I鈥檝e had a series of meetings about all manner of things this morning. I鈥檝e met groups and discussed the Black Country challenge (a 鈥渇estival of learning鈥� in the Coventry area) and parental engagement in a child鈥檚 education. I鈥檝e been to a cross-governmental meeting to discuss the swine flu outbreak, and I鈥檝e done an interview with yourself 鈥� and it鈥檚 only 12.30.鈥�

As if on cue, at the mention of the time a stern looking female aide appears to tell Knight in no uncertain terms that people are waiting for him downstairs. 鈥淲hat鈥檚 my next meeting?鈥� he asks, momentarily wrong-footed. But then his calm manner returns. 鈥淚鈥檒l be down shortly.鈥� 鈥淚t鈥檚 fine,鈥� he adds as she lingers pointedly. 鈥淩eally.鈥�

Much to her obvious ire, he spares a couple more minutes for photos, and also, bewilderingly, to send a tweet telling the world that he鈥檚 just been photographed for the magazine. It鈥檚 well buried beneath the serious, measured exterior, but maybe there鈥檚 just the faintest touch of the drama luvvie about him after all.

Jim Knight鈥檚 school days

Most hated subject

Maths. It can be a very enjoyable subject, taught well, but taught badly it can sort of kill you off.

Best teacher

A guy called Andy Dixon, a geography teacher. Through the subject he instilled a real understanding of the world in which we live and how people interact with their environment, and that鈥檚 stood me in good stead in the world of politics.

Worst part of school building

In the music room they had those chairs that have got a little extension to the arm where you鈥檙e meant to write on. But I鈥檓 left handed, and there weren鈥檛 enough left-handed chairs. We were an oppressed minority.