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鈥淗e denies ever saying it now.鈥� Nigel Webb is recalling the time his eldest son, then aged 10, sat down at a meal one particular family holiday and told his dad he needed to have a talk. 鈥淗e said: 鈥楧ad, I have something to tell you.鈥� I thought: what is he going to say? Anyway, he said: 鈥楧ad I think I鈥檓 a Man United fan鈥�. I said: 鈥業f you want to support Man United we will never talk about football again鈥�. I took him to Elland Road and bought him the full kit. He鈥檚 an ardent Leeds fan now.鈥�

Born in South Yorkshire but raised further up the Ridings in Bingley, Webb has been following the club since he was a child in the 1970s and is taken aback that 鈥� whisper it 鈥� some people have a soft spot for Leeds now after entertaining the Premier League last year on their return. When he started supporting the team, the moniker Dirty Leeds was at its most damning with rivals upset at what they saw as the side鈥檚 gamesmanship and fouling. Brian Clough, who took over as manager from Don Revie for, famously, just 44 days, told all the players they had won their medals in the Revie era through cheating. 鈥淚t鈥檚 amazing,鈥� Webb marvels. 鈥淎ll these years, we鈥檝e been everyone鈥檚 most hated team.鈥�

What goes under the bonnet of a BMW car is generally pretty standard; it鈥檚 the model that looks different. Why aren鈥檛 buildings more like that?

The head of development at British Land tries to get up to Elland Road as much as he can and is hardcore enough to go to Millwall away 鈥� a fearsome place for any fan, especially those of Leeds. 鈥淟ast time I was there we were in the Championship. The Millwall fans were lobbing glass bottles at us. The police did nothing. It was like going back to the 1970s.鈥�

A chartered surveyor by background, the 57-year-old鈥檚 commitment to construction is almost as long, having joined the developer 30 years ago next March, while he has been in his current role since 2003.

He is in charge of a development programme that has typical spends of around 拢1.5bn a year and has helped mastermind some of London鈥檚 most notable landmarks in recent years, including the Cheesegrater building. 鈥淟eadenhall is right up there,鈥� he says of the Rogers Stirk Harbour + Partners-designed tower. 鈥淭he scale of the building, the beauty of the architecture, the engineering 鈥� it was second to none. As a project to work on, it was brilliant.鈥�

He is talking at British Land鈥檚 most recently completed building, 100 Liverpool Street in the firm鈥檚 Broadgate campus. Occupiers include banks Peel Hunt and SMBC, law firm Milbank as well as retailers such as Tommy Hilfiger, Reiss and Space NK. Designed by Hopkins and built by Sir Robert McAlpine, the scheme was delayed by the pandemic when British Land, like others, took the decision to shut down sites in the wake of the first lockdown last March. 鈥淚t was amazing having to close down sites,鈥� he recalls, still incredulous he had to ring up firms to tell them to send workers home. 鈥淚鈥檇 never been through that in my career before. You鈥檙e calling up your contractors, saying we just have to shut your site.鈥�

The post-pandemic office

Comparing the global financial crash with the pandemic is difficult, he says, because no one in living memory had been through a pandemic before. 鈥淚n a recession, you鈥檝e got historic reference points, you can see the cyclicality of it. This was unprecedented. We always believed London was going to be one of the global winners for all the reasons people invested in London in the first place.鈥�

Last week, with holidays coming to an end and schools going back, developers like British Land were on tenterhooks for their particular version of the City of London鈥檚 Big Bang in the 1980s.Trains, tubes and buses are fuller and those startling images of swathes of London utterly empty are a thing of the past.

鈥淚 think we were all holding our breath a little bit for 6 September. I think that鈥檚 when most businesses said 鈥榦kay, enough is enough, let鈥檚 try and get back to the workplace鈥�. I think we are starting to see that and it will build up.鈥�

But caution remains among some of those coming back to work, with reports of train commuters even refusing to move bags from vacant seats because others aren鈥檛 wearing face masks. Webb says: 鈥淥ur view is that working practices have changed for good. I don鈥檛 think we鈥檙e suddenly going to go back to pre-pandemic levels. The office still has a future, I think the norm will be a two-days, three-days split. That鈥檚 what we鈥檙e hearing from our customers. But then it鈥檚 about how you make sure those three days are worth them coming into the workplace for.鈥�

He says it鈥檚 about the quality of the space and what it looks like. The busiest days will be Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, with the requirement for desks reducing but those that stay having bigger spaces. 鈥淚f you鈥檝e got people working three days a week, it doesn鈥檛 mean you鈥檙e going to lose 40% of your space. There will be a lower density, but I don鈥檛 see a massive shedding of space.鈥�

Like everyone else, Webb has missed human interaction as the lockdowns dragged on. He didn鈥檛 mind the first one. 鈥淲e were fortunate; people of a certain age have got a house, a study, a garden. The weather was great. There was something quite nice about it. I just sorted my life out 鈥� I鈥檇 never had time to do that. I thought it was brilliant for that; I feel so much in order.鈥�

But he adds: 鈥淵ou realise you miss meeting and seeing people. It took a little time to realise the social interaction had gone from your life. Things like Teams have allowed us all to keep our businesses going, and I鈥檓 amazed at how much we鈥檝e achieved in the last 18 months under the circumstances, but you definitely miss the bits around the edges, the water cooler moments picking stuff up.

鈥淚t鈥檚 very difficult to build a culture over Teams. We鈥檝e traded on the culture and the goodwill we鈥檝e built up from all those years before, working together. If British Land was to suddenly try and get 500 people who鈥檝e never met before and try to build a culture and organisation over Teams, we wouldn鈥檛 be half as effective as we are now.鈥�

He worries about the impact on people鈥檚 mental health from repeated lockdowns and adds: 鈥淭alk to the lawyers. They鈥檙e desperate to get the youngsters back for training, picking up tips and things in the office. You can鈥檛 do that over Teams.鈥�

Work in progress

In a sign of commitment to the office market, McAlpine began work on the developer鈥檚 1 Broadgate scheme in May. Designed by AHMM, the 拢300m job involves tearing down the original 1980s building and replacing it with 546,000ft虏 of new office and retail space.

British Land is also in talks with McAlpine about its next tower, a 37-storey scheme expected to come in north of 拢300m, designed by Danish architect 3XN, at 2 Finsbury Avenue on the Broadgate campus 鈥� with the developer getting possession of the site next year. It is also mulling what to do with the Euston Tower, a 1960s block at its Regent鈥檚 Place campus. 鈥淚t鈥檚 not the easiest one,鈥� Webb admits. 鈥淲e鈥檇 like to maintain the existing structure from an environmental point of view but it鈥檚 got limited capacity.鈥� It will either get a big overhaul 鈥� 鈥渢he cladding is past its sell-by date鈥�, Webb says 鈥� or British Land will knock it down and start again.

Much of its work at Broadgate is done by McAlpine under a framework it set up with the contractor several years ago. 鈥淲e had a number of projects going on at one time and we didn鈥檛 want two or three contractors running around on site. We wanted to get the benefits of learning from project to project with one firm.鈥�

Webb says that in his near three decades at British Land, the industry has changed 鈥渂ut not as much as it should have done鈥�. He adds: 鈥淚鈥檓 quite critical of our industry and having been in it for 30 years, I think I鈥檝e got the right to be. We are very slow to adopt change. If you look at [the] automotive, aeronautical [industries], the construction industry has been left behind.鈥�

Construction, he adds, doesn鈥檛 spend enough on research and development because of 鈥渇righteningly thin鈥� margins. 鈥淎s soon as we hit a downturn, everyone stops spending, downs tools, a couple of years later starts up again but from a worse position because we鈥檝e lost a lot of the skillbase that has gone out of the industry. Our rate of progression in improving what we do is very low.鈥�

He says some progress has been made with digital design and engineering and offsite manufacturing but adds that it should have moved on a lot further. 鈥淐ertain people embrace it more than others. There needs to be more standardisation instead of reinventing the wheel every time we do a project. What goes under the bonnet of a BMW car is generally pretty standard; it鈥檚 the model that looks different. Why aren鈥檛 buildings more like that?鈥�

People haven鈥檛 got the time or the margins to stand back and think 鈥榟ow do we do things differently next time?鈥� They just roll on to the next job

A few weeks ago, Webb was taken on a tour of Hinkley Point C, the new nuclear power station being built in Somerset. 鈥淲ow,鈥� he says. 鈥淭he scale is mind-blowing. It鈥檚 massively impressive.鈥� He thinks Hinkley could be construction鈥檚 Formula 1 moment. 鈥淪ome say F1 is a bit of a glory sport. A lot of money goes into F1 but part of what comes out of F1 is engineering that finds its way into normal car manufacturing. I think on something like Hinkley lessons will be learnt from that and they will start to trickle down into what we do in our day-to-day jobs.鈥�

There needs to be much more offsite manufacturing, he says, to counter the numbers leaving the industry whether through Brexit, retirement or simply moving on. 鈥淲e have to get better at it. The [shrinking] workforce is a huge problem for us. There are only two ways we are going to get round it. One is less reliance on the workforce, which means more offsite manufacturing, and the second is making sure we skill people up appropriately.鈥�

He is aware that some contractors will say the margins they make prohibit them from investing in the sort of things he is talking about. 鈥淧eople haven鈥檛 got the time or the margins to stand back and think 鈥榟ow do we do things differently next time?鈥� They just roll on to the next job.

鈥淭he biggest issue is trust, in our industry; it can be quite adversarial. Frameworks remove that adversarial nature. The industry could turn round and say 鈥榩ay us more money鈥� but actually I think the way to do it is to get more efficient at what we do and then people can make better margins.鈥�

He says the capacity for change is greatest among the tier 1 contractors. 鈥淭he bigger issues are down the supply chain. With the tier 2 and tier 3s, it鈥檚 harder to get change. As you go down, it becomes more hand to mouth.鈥�

But the industry has to start somewhere, and at the top is as good a place as any, Webb says. 鈥淲e鈥檙e always going to be building buildings. We have got to find a way to be more profitable. We never want people to lose money on our jobs. It鈥檚 no good to us if big tier 1 contractors go under because they can鈥檛 make money out of it. We want them to make good money and be there for the next job 鈥� and to be able to do the next job better. We want improvement as we go along and we have a duty of care to help them achieve that.鈥�