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It鈥檚 news to Geoff that Father Christmas comes from a real place, but then he doesn鈥檛 have much time for the bearded benevolent one. He鈥檚 been trying to keep his 鈥渆xistence鈥� a secret from his eight (yes, eight) children for years.

It seems that you have to think of the bank balance when you鈥檙e as fertile as Geoff. 鈥淢y daughter Chlo毛 spent her formative years thinking the ice-cream van was the music truck,鈥� he says.

Still, the paternity leave must be a perk? 鈥淚 only got half a day for the youngest one,鈥� he moans. 鈥淟uckily the labour was long.鈥�

David is unsympathetic. Last time he switched his Blackberry off, there were 857 messages waiting for him when it came back on. How鈥檚 that for hard work?

Toby, who only has two children, gets us back on topic with a question about the beer鈥檚 credentials. The waitress tells us it was brewed 鈥渂y women only鈥�, but there鈥檚 no mention of that on the bottle. 鈥淚t鈥檚 just a ploy to get men to stay here drinking it all night,鈥� he grumbles, professional sceptic that he is.

We think Lapland would be a good place to visit though. Geoff鈥檚 friend went there to buy timber and ended up rolling in the snow with his hosts after dinner and a sauna.

The beer tastes pretty good, too, no matter who brewed it.

Still, these guys are paid to spot holes and they don鈥檛 like inconsistencies.

The conversation meanders from mistrust of the pub staff to mistrust of the media and Heather Mills鈥� tirade against the gutter press. 鈥淒id you see the pictures from her interview on GMTV?鈥� asks Andrew. 鈥淪he looked wonderful 鈥� such wild eyes!鈥�

David has no respect for her, though. 鈥淪he totally courts the press and then complains. I don鈥檛 feel sorry for her at all.鈥�

He isn鈥檛 a fan of the media either and it鈥檚 perverse fascination with bad tidings. 鈥淲e just have news all wrong in this country.

In China 80% of news has to be good by law 鈥� now that鈥檚 a decent policy.鈥�

This is not the last of the disagreements about matters of fact and values. There is a technical debate about that try in the Rugby World Cup final and, of course, whether reindeer eat moss or lichen. Andrew is adamant it鈥檚 lichen, by the way.

With our premature Christmas spirits kindled, we are off into the night; not on sleighs, sadly, but the tube and 鈥� for Toby 鈥� a crowded train to the Midlands.