黑洞社区

Carole O鈥橬eil has seen a fair bit of the world. 鈥淲e moved around quite a lot when I was growing up,鈥� she says. 鈥淢y parents are both British, they are both from the North-east of England originally, but growing up we spent time in Europe 鈥� Belgium, Paris, Germany 鈥� and over in the Far East, Malaysia, South Africa鈥︹��

O鈥橬eil is reminiscing about a childhood during which she spent a lot of time overseas as her father was a QS for an international construction company and later a commercial manager in the oil and gas industry. She was later sent to a boarding school in the North-east of England as her parents sought to ensure some continuity in her secondary education.

Fast forward a few decades and O鈥橬eil is looking internationally again, this time as managing partner at Cundall, a fast-growing multi-disciplinary engineering consultancy with around 1,200 employees and 26 offices around the world. The firm, which is well-known for its focus on sustainability, is looking to derive a greater proportion of its income from abroad.

Almost two years to the day since she took the role, O鈥橬eil sits down with 黑洞社区 to explain her strategy for the consultancy, which was last year 26th in 黑洞社区鈥檚 Top 150 Consultants rankings of firms by UK fee income.

We begin by talking about the firm鈥檚 growth. O鈥橬eil says Cundall is expecting to report turnover of around 拢100m for the year ending 30 June, 2024. This compares with  拢95.4m the previous year and 拢79.7m the year in 2022.

The firm in total has grown its revenue from 拢60m to around 拢100m in just five years 鈥� growth of 66% or two-thirds. Last year the company increased its pre-tax profit from 拢10.8m to 拢12.2m.

Key to the strategy behind this growth has been the engineering and design firm鈥檚 international focus.

鈥淏roadly speaking, our revenue has probably been 55% to 60% UK and Ireland and then the balance in the other regions. We have an aspiration to get it closer to 50-50 and we鈥檝e made quite a lot of progress over the last five or 10 years with a much more significant proportion of our growth coming from regions outside the UK,鈥� O鈥橬eil says.

We鈥檝e certainly seen a slowdown in the UK over the last period. Significant growth is likely to be in other parts of the world

She adds that a lot of the firm鈥檚 recent growth has taken place within the Asia-Pacific (APAC) region. 鈥淲e are not doing a massive amount of civil engineering in APAC or Australia but we are certainly doing quite a lot of structures in that part of the world. We are doing a lot of MEP, and a lot in the technology space and corporate real estate.鈥�

Cundall is building up its specialist teams in areas such as vertical transportation, lighting design, acoustics, planning and security. Within the past two years, the firm has opened offices in Bangaluru in India and Manila in the Philippines, to complement its existing bases in Singapore, Hong Kong and Australia.

The consultancy鈥檚 recent APAC activity includes providing sustainable design and net zero carbon consultancy for Japan鈥檚 first net zero commercial high-rise building, known as CURA, which contains onsite solar power, delivered by the client Grosvenor Asia Pacific and the architect Doone Silver Kerr. Cundall also provided building services and engineering services for China鈥檚 35,000sq m Xixian Orange Sky Mall.

But why the focus on growing in these areas as opposed to the UK? In part, says O鈥橬eil, it is about 鈥渂uilding our delivery capability in locations where it鈥檚 perhaps a little bit easier to source talent than it is in some of the other places that we鈥檙e operating.鈥�

鈥淲e鈥檝e certainly seen a slowdown in the UK over the last period. I mean, the economic climate has been challenging.

鈥淲e鈥檝e had a technical recession towards the end of last year. And I think that the growth 鈥� the significant growth 鈥� is likely to be in other parts of the world.鈥�

In addition to the new offices in APAC the firm also opened one in Saudia Arabia last year and the attention is to grow and recruit further.

O鈥橬eill says that availability of talent is 鈥渙ne of the biggest challenges鈥� that construction faces in the UK. 鈥淭he skill space in the UK and ability for employers to hire people with the skills they need has not got any easier post-Brexit,鈥� she says.

鈥淒ifficulties bringing people in from Europe, further restrictions on visas and changes to the immigration regime have made that more challenging. With the escalation of salary levels we need to pay to sponsor workers 鈥� it鈥檚 a real sort of hotch-potch of things.鈥�

Cundall does not, however, appear to be sitting back, resigned to these difficulties. O鈥橬eil says the firm has responded by adopting a 鈥渂lue ocean鈥� strategy to nurture talent, making use of the fact it operates in multiple sectors and disciplines to give younger people the opportunity to work on different types of projects and try learning different skills.

鈥淲hen people are starting to develop project management skills as they move up through their careers, you are not going to give them a massive, multimillion-pound project to manage. But, if you can give them bits of budgets or smaller projects in particular sectors and mentor them through that, it helps them develop that broader skill space they are going to need,鈥� she says.

While the availability of talent is clearly a source of frustration, another area that O鈥橬eil feels is a challenge in the UK market is the lack of certainty over net zero. 鈥淭here needs to be a clear statement of ambition [from the government] in terms of what the timescales are for this,鈥� she says.

鈥淎nd then I think we need some clarity over how it鈥檚 going to be funded.鈥�

Net zero and sustainability is a particular focus for Cundall, which in recent years has rebalanced away from MEP (which O鈥橬eil says was traditionally the 鈥渃hunkiest鈥� part of the business) towards sustainable engineering and design solutions.

She says she believes that consultants such as Cundall can do a large amount to drive change and tackle perceptions in this space.

鈥淭he impact that we have from an environmental carbon perspective is huge, so the impact that we can have to make it better is equally huge.

鈥淚t doesn鈥檛 always have to be more expensive to create a sustainable building than a less sustainable building, but there is still a perception among some commentators that, you know, it鈥檚 expensive and potentially a bit of a luxury.鈥�

As an example, Cundall cites its Eden New Bailey scheme, in Salford. The 12-storey office scheme, developed by the English Cities Fund (a joint venture formed of Muse, Homes England and Legal & General), was the first building in the UK to achieve a 5.5 NABERS 鈥渄esign reviewed鈥� target rating.

鈥淭he journey the team went on there was really interesting because they set out wanting to create a sustainable building,鈥� O鈥橬eil explains. 鈥淏ut actually, with a few tweaks here and there, they managed to create a really sustainable building, one of the most sustainable office buildings in Europe.鈥�

According to Cundall, WELL building standard principles were adopted for Eden New Bailey to develop a 鈥渂uilding that is net zero carbon in operation and designed to enhance occupancy health, wellbeing and productivity鈥�. The design includes a 鈥渓iving facade that will remove air pollutants, reduce urban temperatures and improve biodiversity, while providing biophilic health and wellbeing benefits to the users.鈥�

Another area of the sustainability space that O鈥橬eil believes Cundall can take the lead on is demonstrating the need for regulatory changes through its use of operational usage data from the buildings it has designed. She uses the example of schools.

鈥淪ome of the standards for electrification of schools are probably falling behind what is actually possible with the technology that we have available today.鈥�

She says that the power output schools are required to have is 鈥渃ompletely unnecessary. If you don鈥檛 need that level of power output for a school, a move towards electric is much more achievable.鈥�

However much Cundall attempts to provide leadership in this space, O鈥橬eil stresses again that the government needs to do more. 鈥淭here needs to be some kind of positive impetus from government because there鈥檚 only so much we can do.鈥�

Listening to O鈥橬eil about her enthusiasm for creating sustainable buildings one would be forgiven for thinking that construction was a lifelong passion. But she came into the industry through a slightly unusual route: human resources, otherwise known as HR.

We give people a lot of autonomy to shape their own careers and shape their own destiny, we are very, very collaborative

Originally she set out to train as a lawyer and did a law degree at university, but decided after graduation that she did not want to practise as a lawyer. Instead she applied for an HR role for a law firm, and did 鈥済eneralist鈥� HR work before eventually joining Cundall as HR director to 鈥渂uild out its people function鈥�.

As it grew, she eventually joined the firm鈥檚 management board, then became a partner before being promoted to her current role as managing partner two years ago.

So how has this background in HR equipped her for her current role?

鈥淲hen I stood for election as managing partner a couple of years ago, it was very much on a platform of preserving and protecting the culture and everything that is good about Cundall, because I think it does have something unique in the industry, and it鈥檚 hard to articulate because you have got to be here and feel it and see it,鈥� she says.

When urged to have a go at articulating it, O鈥橬eil says: 鈥淚 think it [the culture] is entrepreneurial. We give people a lot of autonomy to shape their own careers and shape their own destiny. We are very, very collaborative.鈥�

She describes the culture as 鈥渧ery much not hierarchical鈥�, with forums to allow people to contribute to the firm鈥檚 strategy. 鈥淥ne of the things we talk about is this concept of 鈥榦ne Cundall鈥� 鈥� we want Cundall to kind of feel the same wherever you are in the world, whether you are sitting in Sydney, in Dubai or in Manchester.

鈥淎  lot of that is built on relationships. We invest an awful lot of time and effort and money in bringing people together at all levels.鈥�

O鈥橬eil insists that it is a 鈥渃oincidence鈥� that has she has ended up in construction operating internationally, just like her father did. But she recognises that the experience has given her certain advantages.

鈥淭he background I had probably made me a little bit more comfortable than I otherwise might have been in taking advantage of some of the opportunities to go and work in other parts of the business.

鈥淪o just before covid for instance, I spent 18 months over in Asia. It was supposed to be five and ended up being 18. I just sort of hopped on an aeroplane and off I went.

鈥淚 think the background I had made that less of a daunting prospect than that might otherwise have been for sure.鈥�

And, as Cundall seeks to drive growth in international markets, while implementing and preserving a 鈥渙ne Cundall鈥� culture globally, all those years of moving around the globe as a youngster will surely now come in handy. 

Additional reporting by Ariana Hashtrudi